Real Estate Pros · September 29, 2026 · 19 min listen

Contractors Hate This Document: The Remodeling System Every Real Estate Investor Needs

Show summary

In this episode, we explore the journey of Mr. Norm Bennett, a seasoned general contractor and author, as he shares insights on remodeling, working with real estate investors, and building a successful business. Discover practical tips on operations, relationship building, and scaling in the real estate and remodeling industry.

Key takeaways

Use an 'order of operations' document instead of just a scope of work: it assigns a realistic date and responsible party to every task so delays (like a plumber rescheduling from Tuesday to Monday) can be tracked and their downstream impact understood.
Contractors often resist this kind of document because it creates transparent accountability -- it shows exactly who was supposed to do what and when, making it easy to identify who caused a delay.
Norm Bennett built a $2.5 million remodeling business from his garage with a West Point veteran partner, focused on making homes accessible for handicapped and elderly clients, before selling it to a nationwide company and moving into consulting.
Ask contractors and tradespeople their preferred communication method (text, email, phone) and work within that preference; it can take a couple of years of consistent follow-through before a new contractor fully trusts you.
Don't burn relationships with good contractors over small amounts: one investor fired a reliable contractor over a $50 thermostat install charge, losing access to someone who knew the property and likely would have returned for free follow-up fixes. Norm suggests having a conversation first, reserving real pushback for larger discrepancies (he cites $500 as an example of something worth confronting).
Norm Bennett has written two books: 'The Frugal Homeowner's Guide to Remodeling' (aimed at homeowners) and 'The Real Estate Investor's Guide to Remodeling' (aimed directly at investors), both available on Amazon.
Norm Bennett says even investors already doing 15-20 flips a month may not need his full system but could benefit from refining specific pieces, like the order of operations document; he also wants to work with newer investors who need a full start-to-finish process.

In this episode

About the guest

Norm Bennett is a general contractor based in St. Louis, Missouri, with over 30 years of experience in remodeling. He built and sold a $2.5 million business remodeling homes for handicapped and elderly clients through a VA-connected program, and now consults with homeowners and real estate investors. He is the author of two books: 'The Frugal Homeowner's Guide to Remodeling' and 'The Real Estate Investor's Guide to Remodeling.'

Listen to the audio

“I tell you, probably the most important that is the least utilized is an order of operations for your project, and it's not a scope of work, it's an order of operations.”
Norm Bennett

“Contractors don't like a document like that. That's a that tells you, okay, then Bob's responsible. It says it right here. Where was Bob?”
Norm Bennett

“He says, I asked him to put the thermostat in while he was there... A week later, I got a bill for fifty dollars. And I said, that's it for him.”
Norm Bennett

remodelinggeneral contractorsproject managementcontractor relationshipsscope of workSt. Louis, Missourifix and flipwholesaling

Questions answered in this episode

What is an 'order of operations' document and how is it different from a scope of work?

According to Norm Bennett, a scope of work just lists what needs to be done, but an order of operations takes that scope and puts it into a realistic timeline showing exactly when each task happens and who is responsible. It has to be grounded in reality, not overly optimistic or pessimistic, so you know how a delay (like a plumber pushing from Tuesday to Monday) affects everyone else down the line.

Why don't contractors like using an order of operations document?

Norm Bennett says it's because the document is transparent and assigns clear accountability: it states exactly which person does which task at which time, so if something is late, everyone can see who was responsible. That kind of accountability is uncomfortable for contractors who are used to vague timelines.

How should real estate investors handle small billing disputes with contractors?

Norm Bennett shares an example of an investor who fired a good contractor over a $50 charge for a ten-minute thermostat install, even though that contractor knew the property and would likely have returned to fix issues for free. His advice is to have a conversation first, especially over small amounts, rather than cutting ties immediately -- but a larger overcharge (he used $500 as an example) would warrant a real conversation about the issue.

What is the best way to build a long-term relationship with contractors and tradespeople?

Norm Bennett says to ask contractors their preferred communication method (text, email, or phone) and work with their style rather than imposing your own. He notes it can take a couple of years of working with a new plumber or electrician before they trust that you'll work things out together when issues come up.

Where can investors find Norm Bennett's remodeling guidance and books?

Norm Bennett can be reached through normbennettconsulting.com or by searching 'Norm Bennett St. Louis, Missouri.' His two books, 'The Frugal Homeowner's Guide to Remodeling' and 'The Real Estate Investor's Guide to Remodeling,' are available on Amazon.

Resources and links

Full transcript

Norm Bennett (00:00)

I tell you, probably the most important that is the least utilized is an order of operations for your project. and it’s not a scope of work, it’s an order of operations. And it takes that scope of work and puts it in a format of and a time frame of this is gonna happen at this date, and you can’t be really optimistic about it, and you can’t be real.

pessimistic about it. It’s got be based on reality. So, you know, and to know what happens when lets you know that when that plumber doesn’t make it there on Tuesday and he says I can’t get there till Monday, how many people does that push back?

Quentin Edmonds (02:12)

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Real Estate Pros Podcast. I am your host, Q Edmonds, and I am super excited today. I’m excited about my guest. I’m excited about just talking to him the way that he approaches things. And we’re going to talk about some remodeling today. And of course, if you are a wholesale view or flipper, we all know, remodeling the aesthetics of everything is all kind of.

You’re making money to be able to sell different things. So we’re gonna talk about the remodeling. I love how he’s talking to different investors, getting their take, and not only just getting their take, putting himself in a position where he can serve them. And so I’m so excited for us to learn today about Mr. Norm Bennett. So, Norm, how you doing today, sir?

Norm Bennett (02:53)

Doing great, thank you.

Quentin Edmonds (02:55)

Absolutely,

man. Listen, I’m so glad you’re here. Time is our most precious commodity. So thank you for giving us some of your time today. And Mr. Norm, sir, I am the type I like to dive right in, right? So I would love for you to tell the people what’s your main focus these days. If you don’t mind, give us a little origin story, kind of how you got into this space that you’re in, and then tell them geographically where you are in the world. People love to know where people are, so if you can share that as well. So Mr. Norm, I’m fine. You have the floor, sir.

Norm Bennett (03:23)

Okay, I’m in St. Louis, Missouri and been here pretty much all my life, moved around when I was a young guy. any place I could go and make another dollar an hour, I’d go, So we did move around the Midwest and to the East Coast and things like that. but once I became a general contractor, I stuck right here and I’ve done that for over thirty years. Really have learned the hard way on everything.

started out broke like everybody does, And but after thirty some years I really wanted to give something back. It started with giving something back to homeowners. So I wanted to kind of pull the curtain back and teach them what the remodeling process was. So that’s when I wrote the book, The Frugal Homeowner’s Guide to Remodeling. And

Serendipitously, that’s what got me into contact with real estate investors. Because real estate investors, they actually needed this information much more than homeowners. I have to talk homeowners into believing that they need this information. Remodeling is a bad road and you gotta be careful and you gotta have all your ducks in a row. So I didn’t have to do any of that explanation with real estate investors.

They’re shaking their head, yes, So I started doing Zoom meetings with a couple of real estate investor groups here in St. Louis, and I got such a good response that I wrote another book, The Real Estate Investor’s Guide to Remodeling. Yeah. And that directly goes to what you guys are battling out there. And so I’m just really looking forward to that this book is like out today, it’s brand new. And

I’m really looking forward to talking to a group of people that are interested in my thirty plus years of making mistakes, you know. And how that could help them do what they need to do on a property. So

Quentin Edmonds (05:13)

Absolutely. Well, Mr. Norm, congratulations on the release of your second book, your second book. And man, I just I thank you for taking us through the journey a little bit, telling us where you are, kind of how you got there, the mindset around where you landed. And I love that. I kind of want to peek into that mindset a little bit. because Mr. Norm, I have a saying where I always say destiny has no wasted moments, right? we learn from every leg of the journey. And you’ve you’ve been doing this for 30 years, right? So you

Know there’s been transitions, there’s been pivots, there’s been learning lessons, right? So I would love to know, Mr. Norm, throughout your journey. What has the journey revealed to you about yourself? Has it made you more disciplined? Has it made you more humble? Like what does this journey reveal to you about you, sir?

Norm Bennett (06:47)

I would say the first fifteen, twenty years was a very cocky young man that thought he knew everything. and as you grow a little older you do become humble or you better or you should. and like we mentioned a little earlier, ten years ago is when young man came to me from the military.

He was a West Pointer and he wanted to do something for the VA. And he wanted to start a remodeling business up, but he didn’t know anything about remodeling. So we took that on and I just shut down my contractor services and we started it up in my garage. And we built that up to a two and a half million dollar business. Yeah. And we remodeled homes for the handicapped and the elderly. And that was a very gratifying thing to do.

And boy, if that doesn’t humble ya, we we did a lot of amazing things to make a home accessible to somebody that couldn’t go anywhere else, And so we really that was gratifying. And then to when we sold that business to a nationwide operation corporation, that’s when I started consulting. And I said, I don’t have to be the boss anymore. I’ve got a lot of information in this.

brain of mine. Surely somebody needs to know what I know. And I just feel like I’m pulling the curtain back on the whole remodeling process because I’ve been on every level of it and I’ve seen how the big companies operate, the young guys, the small operations operate. And as a real estate investor goes out there and starts talking to contractors, what do you believe? Who do you hire?

what’s very important, what’s not that important, and hiring contractors is a big deal. and I’m sure everyone that’s listened to this knows or knows about or has personally experienced a very bad experience with a contractor. So yeah, I’m really gratified that I can help in that path. Yeah.

Quentin Edmonds (08:36)

Thank you, Mr. Norm. Thank you for the nuggets that you just dropped there. And one of the things that you say the word operate, you said you’ve seen it operate on

all scales on so many different levels, the big boys, intermediate, you know, to the, not small, but just, you know, with, somebody that maybe not as well rounded or as established. So I would love to get an operational point of view from you. So what in what is from your vantage point, what is some operational things or maybe at least one operational thing that you’ve put into place that’s kind of helped you be successful.

Norm Bennett (09:06)

And what do you do about it and how do you deal with it? And that’s a very important aspect that you don’t see very much. And I’ll tell you another reason you don’t see it very much is because it’s a very trans

parent document. It’s a document that says this person does this, this person does that, and this person does it at this time. Contractors don’t like a document like that. That’s a that tells you, okay, then Bob’s responsible. it says it right here. Where was Bob? so that’s a very important aspect in that I’ve grown to a pretty substantial document.

In my process.

Quentin Edmonds (10:25)

Thank you, sir. Thank you for sharing a candid view from a contractor’s point of view. Because you know a lot of people, that’s some of their horror stories, are dealing with contractors. And so I appreciate you talking about the accountability of it all because that’s a lot of times that’s for fall to the cracks. Like everybody’s pointing, like, no, it was that that no, it was that it was that. So yeah, so that I appreciate you highlighting that for sure.

Norm Bennett (10:49)

Absolutely. Yeah.

Quentin Edmonds (10:50)

What’s next for you, Mr. Norm? Like what’s the next real goal? Like what are you looking to solve to scale next, sir?

Norm Bennett (10:55)

Well, I’ve developed a lot of good information and I’ve developed a lot of good PowerPoints and I’ve developed a lot of had some really good Zoom calls and I’ve written the book. I have no idea how to find real estate investors.

so I’m gonna I’m gonna have to go down a there’s gonna be another learning curve, and that’s gonna take a while and I love it because it’s gonna come in a generic kind of organic

pace, But the information is here and the platform is here and I just would love to be able to do that. And it’s a nationwide situation. So I could find a group in Kansas, Arkansas, Texas, wherever, and they could say, Yeah, we need this and then I’m happy to jump on it,

Quentin Edmonds (11:37)

Yeah,

30 years of experience, I’m gonna love asking you this question because I want to hear your vantage point. What’s your philosophy on building healthy business relationships? like talk to me a little bit about that. And has there been relationships that’s helped you? I’m talking about your personal.

view on building a healthy business relationship because everybody’s is different. some people benefit strongly from relationships, some people don’t. But I want to hear your philosophy on the sir.

Norm Bennett (12:01)

I’ll tell you my personal philosophy and then I’ll tell it tell it to you from a real estate investor’s philosophy. the young cocky guy, ten, fifteen years in and a general contractor and driving a big truck, he didn’t need relationships. He just needed a big hammer, carry a big stick. that went away.

I want to know what’s your best form of communication? Do you like text? Do you like email? Do you like a phone call? And I’m gonna yield to your I’m gonna communicate with you as best I can in the best way I can. and if an issue comes up, we’re gonna work it out together. And I’d say after a couple years with a contractor, with a new plumber, with a new electrician, with

They they’re finally like, okay, Norm’s okay. we’re gonna work it out. and from a real estate investor’s perspective, it wasn’t that long ago I was talking to a real estate investor and he had ten pieces of property and he was telling me all the problems he had with contractors. Now this does a little flip on the contractor situation. He says, I asked him to put the thermostat in while he was there.

And I stood right there and he put the thermostat in. It took him ten minutes. A week later, I got a bill for fifty dollars. And I said, That’s it for him. Wow. So he walked away from a guy who could change his scope, he could put the thermostat in, he had the knowledge. And if you’d a called him back in a month and said the ther thermostat doesn’t work, he probably would have ran by and took care of it for you. Yeah.

But now he’s gone. you’re mad because he made fifty bucks in ten minutes. That’s the difference. Yeah. And building relationships and and then if he thought it was an oversight or an overcharge, if it was five hundred instead of fifty, we need to have a conversation. that’s a little bit of a backdrop on my where and where it landed.

Quentin Edmonds (14:34)

Absolutely. No, so well said, sir. Listen, before we give people information on how to get in contact with you, I just wanna make sure that

We cover all bases. So I’m not sure. Maybe you came in with a message that you wanted people to know about you or about what it is that you do. And so if you have any message that you want to give the people, any message of inspiration, education, or anything that’s, kind of on your mind or in your heart, I kind of just want to make room and space that you can land that message if you have something like that, sir.

Norm Bennett (15:04)

Okay, I appreciate that. I would say the real estate investors out there that are doing that are already doing fifteen, twenty flips a month, they might not need Norm it. They’ve probably got a pretty good system. They might need things refined, like for example, the order of operations. We could dig into that. I want to make myself available to those people that are doing the work and also the newbies.

I want people to be able to start a process and go from start to finish and take away the points that they can carry from job to job to job to job. Then I feel like I’ve done my job. so that’s where I’m at.

Quentin Edmonds (15:45)

Yes, sir. Well, I love it, man. So tell the people if someone wanted to reach out to you, connect with you, collaborate with you, learn more about what you’re doing, how can they get in contact with you, sir?

Norm Bennett (15:56)

The easiest way is normbennettconsulting.com. that’s my website or Google Norm Bennett St. Louis, Missouri. I’ll pop up,

I’m happy to, like I said, work with them on it in on any level. and you can get my books on Amazon.

Quentin Edmonds (16:12)

Hold them up again for me, Mr. Norm.

Norm Bennett (16:14)

Yeah.

Quentin Edmonds (16:14)

a little higher for me. There we go. Yep, perfect.

Norm Bennett (16:17)

Okay. Perfect. The fruit the Frugal Homeowner’s Guide to Remodeling and the Real Estate Investors Guide to Remodeling. Perfect.

Quentin Edmonds (16:24)

I really thank you for coming by. let me say three things to you sincerely, Mr. Norm. One, thank you for your time. I think time is our most precious commodity. So thank you. Thank you for your time.

Also, thank you for just sharing. Thank you for the gift of your integrity, the gift of your authenticity. I believe when we share our story and what we do, we sprinkle seeds, and those seeds can take root at any given time. And so I thank you for coming and sprinkling some seeds. That way it can take root and for the people that’s listening. And then lastly, sir, thank you for the way you think and bringing that mindset to this platform. I appreciate you coming on today, Ms. Norm.

Norm Bennett (16:59)

Well, thank you very much. I really appreciate you have absolutely a lot of fun.

Quentin Edmonds (17:03)

Yeah, I appreciate that. So listen, y’all heard Mr. Norm. His information is in the show notes. It’s been transcribed. The links are in the show notes. Please get in contact with him. But definitely make sure you are subscribed here. Because I promise you, we’re going to continue to bring up amazing people, just like Norm Bennett. Sir, thank you again. I appreciate you again. And everyone else, listen, y’all have a fantastic day.