Sight-Unseen Real Estate Deals, Flips vs. BRRRR, and Value-Add Renovations w/ Paul Denis
Show summary
In this episode of the Real Estate Pros Podcast, Paul Denis shares his extensive experience in real estate investing, discussing his journey from purchasing his first property in college to navigating market challenges and the importance of financial literacy. He emphasizes the need for adaptability in strategies, especially in fluctuating markets, and offers valuable renovation tips to increase property value. Paul also reflects on lessons learned throughout his career, including the significance of understanding financing options like hard money loans.
Key takeaways
- Paul Denis bought his first investment property while in college for $6,500 after negotiating down from a $20K asking price listed in a newspaper ad.
- He buys properties sight unseen when deals are out of state, relying on live video calls with a realtor to inspect specific areas, but warns this carries risk of hidden issues like structural problems discovered during demolition.
- A fraud case in Baltimore City, where investors allegedly used misleading appraisals and left roughly $100 million in losses, made lending very restrictive and pushed him to shift from BRRRR back to flipping in that market.
- Always have a backup exit strategy: when a planned refinance for a BRRRR deal fell through mid-project, he pivoted to listing and selling the property instead.
- He got his real estate license after realizing that doing a flat-fee listing (paying a realtor a flat fee while handling negotiations, pricing, and marketing himself to save about 50% in commission) meant he was effectively doing a realtor's job anyway.
- Renovation tips for adding value: convert extra space into an actual bedroom rather than open living space, create open floor plans on the main level by removing walls, and use trending finishes like gray paint, islands, upgraded countertops, and lighting.
- His biggest lesson learned late: he didn't use hard money loans until his fourth purchase and believes knowing about them earlier would have let him enter real estate investing sooner instead of relying on conventional financing or borrowing from family.
In this episode
- 00:00Cold open: When a BRRRR plan falls apart overnight
- 02:17Introducing Paul Denis, 20+ year investor and realtor
- 02:36First deal: a college-era news ad and a $20K dilapidated property
- 03:44Staying consistent through a near decade-long market crash
- 05:18Learning as you go without a mentor
- 06:19Buying properties sight unseen: process and risks
- 08:04Flips vs. BRRRR, and why lending fraud in Baltimore changed his strategy
- 11:04How he got his real estate license after a flat-fee listing experience
- 13:16Financial literacy and understanding loan terminology
- 16:02Renovation tips: adding bedrooms, open floor plans, gray paint, finishes
- 17:49Biggest lesson: wishing he'd known about hard money loans sooner
About Bought It Blind
Paul Denis is a 20-plus year real estate investor and licensed realtor based in Boston by way of Baltimore. He bought his first investment property while in college for $6,500, has done flips, buy-and-holds, and BRRRR deals, and now runs his investing business alongside representing buyers and sellers as an agent and offering one-on-one mentorship. He also runs a separate brand called Dreamstar.
Listen to the audio
“Things always don't go as planned. You've got to be ready for that. Even going forward, if you're going to do this, things happen. You got to change plan B it.”
Paul Denis
“I've purchased properties sight unseen. I don't know if that's recommended.”
Paul Denis
“Had I known I can borrow money from a stranger and they would, as long as I had the right idea and the right plan, lend it to me and give me all the money I need to renovate this place... that would be the biggest thing I'd take from there.”
Paul Denis
Questions answered in this episode
What are the risks of buying real estate sight unseen?
Paul Denis says you rely on video calls and live video walkthroughs with a realtor to target specific areas of the home and exterior, since you can't physically walk the property. The main risk is surprises during demolition, such as structural issues that require reframing or resupporting a wall, which weren't factored into the original purchase.
Why did Paul Denis switch from BRRRR back to flipping in Baltimore?
A fraud case involving outside investors buying properties with misleading appraisals (reportedly leaving around $100 million in losses) led to very restrictive lending in his main market, Baltimore City. Because refinancing for a BRRRR became difficult, he shifted his exit strategy to listing and flipping instead.
What should investors do when a BRRRR refinance falls through?
Paul says you have to be ready to pivot immediately since things can change overnight and are often out of your control. In his case, when refinancing fell apart mid-project, he called his realtor and switched to listing the property for sale instead, stressing that investors should always have more than one exit strategy.
What renovation changes add the most value to a flip, according to Paul Denis?
He focuses on adding an actual extra bedroom rather than just additional living space, since a separate room increases value faster and makes the property more desirable. He also prioritizes open floor plans on the main level, removing walls to open things up, plus trend-driven finishes like gray paint, islands, and upgraded countertops and lighting.
How did Paul Denis get his real estate license?
After renovating and refinancing a home he lived in (his third purchase), he listed it himself through a flat-fee listing, paying a realtor a flat fee to put it on the MLS while he handled negotiations, pricing, and marketing himself to save roughly 50% versus a full-service listing. Realizing he was doing all the work of an agent anyway, he decided to get licensed himself.
What does Paul Denis say he wishes he'd known earlier in his investing career?
He says if he had known about hard money loans sooner, he would have entered the business earlier. Instead of realizing a stranger would lend him money for a deal with the right plan, he initially relied on conventional routes like borrowing from family, and didn't use hard money until his fourth purchase.
Resources and links
Full transcript
Paul Denis (00:00)
yeah, yeah. I mean, you just got to be ready. I mean, stuff happens overnight like that. I’m in the middle of a deal and a project. That’s my exit strategy. I’m going to go ahead and refinance. This is going to be a burr. And then that happens. It’s totally out of my control. you know, because you just got to be ready for that. So it’s like, okay. So now I’m on the phone with my realtor down there. I’m no longer licensed in Maryland, but like, hey, I guess we just got to list it now, you know.
So it’s just a different exit strategy. You want to have a couple options because things always don’t go as planned. so yeah, so that’s what happened there. And you just got to be ready for that. Even going forward, if you’re going to do this, things happen. You got to change plan B it. And you got to do that. you know
Kristen (02:17)
Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros Podcast. I’m Kristen and I’m here with Paul Denis, who is a 20 plus year real estate investor and realtor from Boston by way of Baltimore. So I’m excited to have you. Thanks for being here, Paul.
Paul Denis (02:29)
Appreciate
it, appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
Kristen (02:31)
So you’ve had a really long career in the industry. How did you get into it in the first place?
Paul Denis (02:36)
So I originally ⁓ was looking at a news ad ⁓ for a property for sale while I was in college. So ⁓ I went to check it out. ⁓ There was like a dilapidated kind of, you know, renovations needed sort of thing. Ended up purchasing it. ⁓ It was listed for about 20K and we negotiated down to a lot less than that. And that’s how I got in.
Kristen (03:03)
⁓ wow, so what sparked that in the first place to want to go all in?
Paul Denis (03:04)
and the first property.
⁓
you know what? So I was in school for business. I was trying to figure out, you know, what kind of businesses I was looking to venture into. ⁓ I’ve always heard good things about real estate. ⁓ I was doing some reading online, just articles and, just dove into it, you know, just really, you know, blindly, I guess when you’re younger, you just, you know, you’re adventurous. Yeah.
Kristen (03:15)
right.
Yeah, right, exactly. You take a lot more risks. then,
so obviously you’ve been able to stay in it and build a portfolio and build a nice career. What’s kind of helped you with your longevity?
Paul Denis (03:44)
⁓ we talked about a second ago, like consistency, ⁓ determination kind of, ⁓ and just having a, you know a natural like fondness for the business. You know, like the business. I liked the idea of investing in real estate specifically, you know, so, even when we went through a, you know, a crash, a tough time in real estate, you know, close to a decade long, ⁓
Kristen (04:00)
Yeah.
Paul Denis (04:12)
I was still kind of involved in just doing the knowledge, getting the information, and just staying up on some of the trends or what’s happening, just waiting for the market to kind of open back up.
Kristen (04:22)
Right,
right. And do you have any like mentors or groups that you leaned on to, you know, learn information or did you kind of learn as you went?
Paul Denis (05:18)
⁓ It’s kind of like a learn as you go sort of thing for me. Unfortunately, I didn’t have a mentor or anything like that. So ⁓ I had people that I was doing business with, but not really a coach. So it’s kind of like trial and error. You kind of do enough to know and build a system and ⁓ figure out who you need as far as a team around you and stuff like that. so
Kristen (05:36)
Yeah.
brand.
Paul Denis (05:46)
Yeah, it’s like travel never, you you know.
Kristen (05:49)
Of course, and
can you think of maybe a significant thing that went wrong that you learned from?
Paul Denis (05:57)
Hmm many things go wrong in real estate But yeah, no you learn from certain mistakes in in general. I don’t think it’s like one You know particular thing It’s like, know, you learn to make sure it doesn’t happen the next time, you know so I’ve purchased properties sight unseen ⁓ So, I don’t know I don’t know if that’s recommended
Kristen (06:19)
Mmm.
Yeah,
Paul Denis (06:24)
No.
Kristen (06:24)
how do you even, what’s your strategy when you put your sight on scene? What are you looking for and what stands out?
Paul Denis (06:30)
Yeah,
it’ll be something like this. It’ll be like either a video call with the realtor. And obviously it’s not just to do it. It’s because we’re not close. I’m not physically able. It’s out of state or something like that. I’m not physically able to walk the property. And know, with real estate, you got to move fast. So it’s pictures, it’s video, ⁓ live video. So you can kind of like target where you want to see in the home, the exterior. Obviously, it’s not the same as…
physically walking and the property, but ⁓ you kind of have to do what you got to do.
Kristen (07:04)
Yeah, so probably
all about making sure the numbers make sense. Have you ever purchased something sight unseen and been kind of surprised with any particular thing?
Paul Denis (07:14)
Yeah, yeah. sometimes you get a good surprise, sometimes it’s a bad surprise. So it’s like the best of both worlds. ⁓ But yeah, I’ve been surprised where it’s like, once you start the demolition, you kind of figure out some other areas that you didn’t think about at all. So structural things, I’ve had structural things pop up where it’s like, you didn’t factor in for that. You purchased sight unseen.
⁓ so it’s like, once you actually get started, you’ll learn, maybe I have to reframe this whole wall or resupport this. that’s, that’s happened to me, you know, so that’s, you know, that’s something that’s, you got to deal with this. It’s risk to some degree.
Kristen (07:55)
Yeah, and you’ve done every, you’ve done flips, you’ve done holds, you’ve done the burr method. Do you still do kind of a combination or have you focused your,
Paul Denis (08:04)
Um,
I had, uh, when I re-entered the market in about like 2020, 2019, 2020, um, I had focused on mainly flips. I’ve been doing flips for the most part, um, since, and I was looking to venture off into, um, doing some more burr. I did that, uh, some time ago. Um, but yeah, I’m thinking about going back into, so that involves holding a property and
you know, and obviously the lending and everything that goes with that. ⁓ So, you know, like I was mentioning earlier, there is some issues in my main, you know, prospective market with the lending. So I’ll probably get back to flipping until they figure that out, you know.
Kristen (08:49)
Yeah, do you want to talk about that a little bit? Like this is
Paul Denis (08:52)
Yeah, maybe
somebody knows this and somebody can fix it. Well, yeah, it’s like it’s a fraud case where somebody, you know, sounds like Wall Street investors went down there and bought a bunch of properties and had, you know, misleading appraisals. And, you know, you can figure out the
Kristen (08:55)
Yeah.
Paul Denis (09:11)
and left maybe like I think they said 100 million or something like that. Yeah, and fraud. So very restrictive lending, if anything at all right now. So it’s kind of hard to do the bird in that market. Let’s say Baltimore City. Yep.
Kristen (09:23)
right.
Yeah, and this is in Baltimore market. Yeah,
yeah, I can imagine that’s very challenging to work your way around. But can you talk about kind of the importance of being agile and importance of changing your strategy based on the market? Because I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of market shifts in your career.
Paul Denis (10:18)
yeah, yeah. I mean, you just got to be ready. I mean, stuff happens overnight like that. I’m in the middle of a deal and a project. That’s my exit strategy. I’m going to go ahead and refinance. This is going to be a burr. And then that happens. It’s totally out of my control. you know, because you just got to be ready for that. So it’s like, okay. So now I’m on the phone with my realtor down there. I’m no longer licensed in Maryland, but like, hey, I guess we just got to list it now, you know.
So it’s just a different exit strategy. You want to have a couple options because things always don’t go as planned. so yeah, so that’s what happened there. And you just got to be ready for that. Even going forward, if you’re going to do this, things happen. You got to change plan B it. And you got to do that. you know
Kristen (11:04)
definitely At what point in your investing career did you decide to get your real estate license?
Paul Denis (11:09)
So it was after the second purchase. I had bought the investment property that I mentioned for $6,500, by the way. That was a deal. But then I purchased a house that I moved into and I actually did somewhat of a burr there, but I was actually living there, but I bought it, did some renovations.
Kristen (11:23)
Good.
Paul Denis (11:36)
refinanced it and purchased a home around the corner. And so that was my third purchase, I should say. So after that purchase, I listed the home that I was living in as a flat fee listing. I’m not sure if you’re familiar, but I can explain for whoever’s name is not clear. That’s basically when you list a property through a realtor, but you know, it’s kind of through yourself because you
Kristen (11:52)
Next. Yeah, please.
Paul Denis (12:03)
You basically list for 3 % and represent yourself. You would pay the buyer’s agent. So you save basically 50 % on the deal. So that’s what I did originally. that was like, you’re kind of like a realtor without the license. You pay a flat fee and they list it. It goes on the MLS, it’s on the market, but…
Kristen (12:21)
Right.
Paul Denis (12:26)
you handle everything, the negotiations, the pricing, the marketing. So I was like, wow, this is ultimately like me being a realtor, why don’t I just get my license? So that’s what happened eventually. Yeah, after the flat fee listing, was like, well, I’m doing all the work. Yeah.
Kristen (12:35)
Right.
here.
And do you mostly do your own investments or do you, are you an agent for other people as well?
Paul Denis (12:49)
⁓ yeah, I work with other people as well. do listings as well, but, ⁓ yeah, I’d my passion is more of the investing. So that’s, that’s my primary focus in real estate, but I do represent buyers, ⁓ sellers as well.
Kristen (13:04)
Yeah, and I know an important part about the business you’ve built is just your financial literacy in general. And I would love for you to kind of talk about the importance of investors having that literacy.
Paul Denis (13:16)
Yeah, it’s very important because you do have a lot of loans to look at. ⁓ If you’re not like a lawyer, you know, some of that paperwork can be a little tough to, you know process. So some sort of literacy, wherever it starts for me, was, I did, had a career in banking and like I said, I was a business major, so always around numbers, you know.
enjoy working with numbers so you know that might not be for everybody but once you get into this you know you have to have some literacy you got to know the terms terminology of some of the loans and just all the jargon really helps you know
Kristen (13:58)
Yeah.
And what’s your best advice for kind of gaining that knowledge? Like, where did you turn to really understand all of that?
Paul Denis (14:47)
That was some of that was trial and error as well. But right now, I’ll be honest, you know, answers are at our fingertips, you know, you got the internet, obviously, but you know, you could take it a step further with AI and chat and everything like that. GPT and you know, right now it’s kind of like the information is at your fingertips, you know, for me.
I’m dating myself, but I kind of had to you know go through it, open some books, read some articles online and things like that. But nothing to the point where I don’t think Google was doing what it’s doing now, where it’s like, hey, I want to know about this. Or even YouTube, which is just another just wealth of information if you really want to know about something, anything, really. So you can put in…
you know, real estate terms and blah, blah, blah, blah, and something will come up, right? 30 different things to learn from. So, you know, that’s how I make use of my time. So a lot of stuff is just processing information and adding it, you know, storing it as knowledge.
Kristen (15:47)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely, yeah, it’s never been easier to learn, so people should really take advantage of that.
Paul Denis (16:02)
Man,
very easy right now. The audio books.
Kristen (16:05)
And I know that, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s a good point too.
Yeah, and so I know that you are really great at renovations. That’s been a big part of your business. What are some of the best tips you have? Like what are some changes that really can dramatically increase value?
Paul Denis (16:21)
Mm-hmm.
All right. Yeah, for me, ⁓ a lot of the time, I go add value, but I look to add maybe an additional room, you know, for like, ⁓ instead of just additional living space, like an actual bedroom, I’ve noticed that that’ll bring the value up even faster and higher, and it’s more desirable because you have a separate room. ⁓ Open floor plans has been something…
that I focused on, you know, just getting rid of some of the walls and opening things up, especially on the main level. ⁓ So yeah, so open concept has been big with potential buyers and stuff like that. Islands and some of the trends.
Paul Denis (17:04)
lights, I use some of those things to attract certain buyers that trends are trends and if you put on HGTV or whatever, you’ll pick up on them. You start to know what people want. A lot of people are into gray paint. So, you know, there’s a lot of gray on my renovations. yeah, like countertops are big.
Just attention to detail and the finishes are kind of what attract the buyer.
Kristen (17:36)
Yeah, absolutely. are good tips. Well, you’ve given a lot of great insight on your really impressive time in the industry and kind of the importance of perseverance. To kind of wrap this all up, what would be you know maybe something you wish you learned earlier in your career that you could share with us?
Paul Denis (17:49)
Appreciate it.
Hmm.
Yeah, something I learned early. If I would have known earlier about hard money loans, then I probably would have entered the business sooner. know, ⁓ granted, was, I don’t know, 23 years old or something like that. ⁓ But still, you know, had I known, you know, I would have went a different route. So I went like… ⁓
Conventional route borrowing money, you know for family and that sort of thing Where I didn’t know I can borrow money from a stranger and they would you know As long as I had the right idea and the right plan that they would lend it to me and give me all the money I need to renovate this place. So So that would be the biggest, you know Know what I take from there Yeah Yeah, it wasn’t till my fourth purchase that I
Kristen (18:42)
Yeah, definitely.
Paul Denis (18:48)
realized that or really implemented that. Yeah.
Kristen (18:50)
Amazing.
I think that’s great advice. Well, thank you so much for being here. I’m sure people got a lot of inspiration for their own businesses. Where can people find you?
Paul Denis (18:59)
Absolutely.
Best place to find me is online. I’m on Instagram. It’s under my other brand. do have other small businesses. Dreamstar is my brand. So if you look up Dreamstar, Paul Denis it’s the easiest way to find me. It’s social media.
Kristen (19:17)
Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being here.
Paul Denis (19:20)
Absolutely, absolutely. Thanks for having me.
Kristen (19:23)
Yeah. So thank you everybody for listening. Hope you learned a lot from Paul and definitely check him out on social media so you can learn more and maybe, you know, because I know that you’re a great mentor to people. So.
Paul Denis (19:34)
Yes, yes, I
do. do do mentorship one-on-one at this point. You know, the business, model works everywhere. You hear what my target market is, but you the business works everywhere if you do it right, you know.
Kristen (19:49)
Of course, amazing. Well, thank you again. Thank you everyone for listening and we will see you back next time. Bye.
