Land Flipping for Beginners: How Michael Robertson Finds Buyers Before Buying Land

Michael Robertson (00:00)

For the most part, not all the time, but for the most part, try to have my end buyers in place and already know what they want. Then when I’m building my list, I can build a list that’s specific to that end buyer.

And some of it’s a little more generic, but I primarily work, you need about 10, 10, 10 builders, and not all my end buyers are builders. Sometimes I don’t want to deal with it. I just list it with the realtor and let her deal with the property and dispose of it that way. But the sell it first, find your end buyer, know what they want, then go look for the product.

Cody Crabb (02:00)

Welcome back to the Real Estate Pros podcast by Investor Fuel. I’m your host, Cody Crabb, and today I’m joined by Michael Robertson of My Land Family. Michael has built thirty-five years of real estate experience and has created a unique data-driven approach to buying and selling vacant land. Michael, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for giving us some time today.

Michael Robertson (02:20)

Cody, I appreciate it. I’m thrilled to have conversation with you and really looking forward to it.

Cody Crabb (02:25)

Same here, same here. Before we get into your background and your history, you call your strategy sell it first. Let, we’ll get into that. And I’m very interested to dive into that a little bit. But why don’t you tell us a little bit about how you how you started in in the land story? Because I feel like it’s not one of those things where you’re like my dream someday is to buy and sell vacant land. Tell us how you got in.

Michael Robertson (02:48)

I’ll give you the Reader’s Digest version. I started a real estate appraisal company years ago, became real good at the data, built it up. We were doing 7,000 appraisals a month throughout the United States, flipped houses in the San Francisco Bay Area, different types of real estate. In 2008, the market crashed, and I had it with real estate. I was done. And then about four years after that, I started getting the bug back. And like people, I listen to podcasts and YouTube and what have you, and I started thinking, what about land?

I don’t need any employees. I don’t need to see it. I don’t need to do anything to it. I don’t need to show it to anybody. And what I found is typically these sellers, potential sellers, see it as a liability. It’s not generating revenue. Maybe they inherited it or it was quitclaim to them and they get that darn tax bill every year. And so it looked great. Mailed out 500 postcards, did two deals, and have been doing it pretty much full time ever since.

Cody Crabb (03:40)

Interesting. Okay. I’d love to dig into this a little more because like you said, it is maybe one of the only versions of real estate I could think of where people don’t care a lot about a lot of it. Like seeing it is not the most important. It actually is a little bit Google Mapsable for lack of a better word. You can look at it online, see what’s around it, and get a pretty good idea of what you’re looking at.

What do people get wrong about looking at land? Like is there, are there some impressions that people have about land specifically that you think are not quite accurate?

Michael Robertson (04:09)

I have one guy that he’s a teammate of mine and he’s a little anxious about land. He flips houses and he understands it. Land, it’s a new product and it’s a little bit unusual for him. There’s competition and what have you, but I think the main thing that I try to do is not market to a million people. And over the years we’ve become real good at data and I dig real deep on the data.

Ideally to have a much smaller list. I’m not interested in mailing out four thousand letters. My list is so niche, but I really know everything about the property and I know more than almost anybody about the sellers and their situation.

Yeah, I just, I dig really deep on the data, minimize my marketing costs, save a lot of time, and really try to focus on the people that need to sell.

Cody Crabb (04:54)

And you said something before we started recording that I found really interesting, which is you focus on the people selling the land more than the actual land itself. Tell me a little about that and what’s behind that strategy.

Michael Robertson (05:06)

I think most people, they do their due diligence on the property. Uh-huh. And there’s probably other people that do this besides me. And I’m thinking, you’ve got this all wrong. You gotta do your due diligence on the property, but I really dig deep on the sellers. I can share some of the characteristics that I know about them even before I contact them to potentially buy property from them.

Cody Crabb (05:26)

What kinds of things, I mean what kinds of things do you uncover when, I mean, obviously like the literal stuff, like you could maybe uncover that someone’s kinda shady, but like is there other, are there other signs that maybe something is not as good of an idea as you think it is just ’cause of the person?

Michael Robertson (05:41)

Yeah, well, first of all, you want to build a good list, and it can be people that are tax delinquent or code enforcement or expired MLS leads and what have you. I’ll build that initial list and then I’ll run it through other databases. I know their age, gender, I know their marital status, I know their annual income, I know their net worth, I know their credit scores, not on all of them, but on a lot of them. And before I make an offer, I do a background on them basically.

And I look and see in their history if they ever had bankruptcies, liens, judgments. I pull their criminal history. Before I make an offer, I’ve got one guy that’s got an 800 credit score and no background issues. And adjacent to him on the next property, a guy that’s making $20,000 a year that’s got a 499 credit score, and he’s got five or six felonies. I may offer one guy ten thousand and the next guy six thousand.

Understanding that data and their situation and their character and their background will let me prioritize those leads, market to a lot fewer people, but make more money on those type of deals. And if there’s two identical properties, I’m gonna offer two different deals based on character.

Cody Crabb (07:31)

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So does all that data primarily help you decide to contact, or are you using what about the seller to determine what you’re actually offering them? Like what is, which way does it go?

Michael Robertson (07:42)

Actually both. I’ll build a list, say it’s tax delinquent and I’ll see how many years they’re delinquent, then I’ll run it through the other data that’s gonna, and I may not even want to market to them, but I’ll run it through other data and maybe they’re seventy-five and it’s someone single and the spouse is no longer around. It’s another characteristic that they’re probably motivated. Now they’re elderly, they’re behind on taxes, they’re making twenty thousand dollars a year, they’ve got a 499 credit score. They need to sell.

And that’s what I try to do is focus on those people. And then if we’re having a dialogue, then I’ll do the deep background on them before I make the offer. And there’s a cost with it, but bankruptcies, liens, judgments, criminal history, business licenses, and business affiliations, as well as anything that’s ever been recorded in their name. I’ll gather all that information. And then instead of one offer, I’ll give them three offers. And instead of negotiating against me,

They typically get the three offers and negotiate against themselves. And the best, the one best for them is cash quick close. And they say, “I want more money.” I said, “Well, you have two other options.” It helps with, I’m dealing with people that need to sell, in my opinion. They’re pretty motivated. I give them the three options, and typically they’ll take the cash, 6,500 cash, 7,500 close in 90 days. I can do an assignment or double close.

Or eighty-five hundred seller financing for two years, cash. And so that will make me a couple thousand dollars extra right there as well.

Cody Crabb (09:06)

Yeah. I love this line of thinking. I think it’s an interesting way to look at it because really like the more going into it, I mean that really will give you so much more detail about, well, and like you said, a lot of people see this as a liability. They’re trying to get rid of this. You’re actually helping them by buying it. And so this is, this is great.

Michael Robertson (09:27)

Example would be the mom lives in Florida, the property’s in Florida, the son lives in California, she gifts it to him. Well, what’s he get every year? He gets a tax bill.

Cody Crabb (09:35)

Yeah. Thanks for that, Mom. Yeah, thank you.

Michael Robertson (09:38)

Yeah, thank you.

Cody Crabb (09:38)

Yeah. Appreciate that. No, that makes sense. Let me, let’s dig a little bit on this idea of sell it first, where you often know who the buyer is before you even acquire the land. How does that typically work in practice? Yeah.

Michael Robertson (09:49)

Typically what I’ll do, and I’ve worked the same county for eight years. I’m not all over the United States. I know a lot of my buyers, but I would go to the Home Builders Association. Well, the Home Builders Association where I am has 94 builders. And then I go to the county and I get a list of, they’ll pull it for me, a list of permits for everyone that’s pulled a permit to build a single-family house in the last year in the county where I’m located.

I’ll contact some of them, but I can also go, I work a lot with a non-profit builder. I had lunch with him last week. And I can pull up their company on the county records and I can see everything they bought, what’s the size of the parcel, what’s the price range, and where are they located.

For the most part, not all the time, but for the most part, try to have my end buyers in place and already know what they want. Then when I’m building my list, I can build a list that’s specific to that end buyer.

And some of it’s a little more generic, but I primarily work, you need about 10, 10, 10 builders, and not all my end buyers are builders. Sometimes I don’t want to deal with it. I just list it with the realtor and let her deal with the property and dispose of it that way. But the sell it first, find your end buyer, know what they want, then go look for the product.

As opposed to a lot of people, they mail out 2,000 letters, now they got one, and they’ve got a 30-day contract and they were trying to do an assignment or double close and now they’re scrambling. I try to alleviate that.

Cody Crabb (11:09)

Yeah, I mean that sounds like that could, I feel like you would get so much better results as someone that’s, you’re basically like a personal shopper at that point. And so you—

Michael Robertson (11:19)

Yeah, and what you do, buy an average deal, buy it for ten, sell it for twenty, buy it for six, sell it for twenty-five. But if I already have the end buyer in place and I know they can pay seventy, I don’t have to get it for thirty-five from this guy or forty. I can get it for fifty-five or sixty. I can make a smaller spread, but I’ve already got my end buyer in place. And I just move as quick as I can.

Cody Crabb (11:42)

Yeah, you said, what was the, you said that you, what was the longest you’ve ever—

Michael Robertson (11:46)

Yeah, the longest I’ve ever had one is ninety days and we bought it for twenty-four seven. I think we sold it for fifty-one five. The shortest, I go to the title company, it’s a double close, I sign the papers, I bought it. She gives me the papers, I sign the paper and I sold it. So as quick as you can do that paperwork.

Cody Crabb (12:43)

Yeah, that’s, some people would are like, man, that timeline sounds incredible after like, some people are spending years on projects and sales. This sounds like a little bit of a dream to those people, I guess. Well, after doing this for eight years in the same county, what’s something that you understand about land now that you didn’t really understand about it before?

Michael Robertson (13:03)

Yeah, I think part it would be, I didn’t know about gopher tortoises or do I have to have a perc test? Just some of the things that are specific to that area. But there was a learning curve. I haven’t really made any significant mistakes. We haven’t lost money on a deal. But a lot of people are going to different counties, different states, and they’re all over the place. My suggestion would be maybe pick two or three counties. I know my values.

I know my end buyers. I know anything in that market area that could potentially, someone outside of the area might not know. And even though I work the same county, I stay within twenty, thirty miles of my house. And—

Cody Crabb (13:40)

Interesting.

Michael Robertson (13:40)

I don’t go see all the properties. I got one here we just did and we sold it to a non-profit. I bought it for ten, I sold it for nineteen five. I had lunch with the land acquisition guy for that non-profit last week.

And I think I’ve sold him twelve properties. It’s just that repeat business. I call him up now and I just say, “David, I’ve got this property,” and he says, “I’ll give you twenty-seven thousand.” I said, “Well, how about twenty-eight?” And he goes, “Okay.” It’s done and we go have lunch.

Cody Crabb (14:03)

Okay, cool. Well, okay. This has been a really interesting one. I feel like we talked to a lot of people that are involved in all sorts of different types of real estate. This is another example of that where you just never know where there’s a little niche you could dig into. You mentioned that you’ve never lost money on a deal. After 35 years in real estate, how much of that is like what you’re doing in the systems you’ve built versus like when to walk away from something at time?

Michael Robertson (14:27)

I think the first thing that I do, I get a lead, I’m talking to the people, the first thing I want to do is understand what I can sell it for. The appraisal background helps that. I need to know what I can sell it for. And then I’m gonna put in a profit margin. And sometimes the sellers, we just can’t agree, but I think one thing people do wrong, they’ll mail out a thousand letters and they get five leads or ten leads and they go through them. Well,

Pick a good market area, build an excellent list, continuously follow up. I just had a lady, she called me from a letter from four years ago. Didn’t turn into a deal, but continuously follow up with the people.

Cody Crabb (15:04)

I could see that being really useful. Well, this has been really interesting, Michael. Thank you so much for giving us a peek into your world. For somebody that really likes this model, they like the idea of this, what’s something that you would tell them, maybe two things, something that they should do and something that they should not do?

Michael Robertson (15:22)

Yeah. Education’s important, so they’re not going out there flying blind. You can do YouTube and what have you. The challenge is it’s gonna take you about three years. If you have a mentor for free, great. You have someone that helps you. There’s a million course providers out there. I would suggest, be cautious. Some of them are a factory. I like to be available for people. I give them my cell phone.

I give my email, I have no secrets. Call me up. I’m happy to hop on the phone and answer questions. But the techniques I use, and I do land, these techniques are good for any product. If you’re flipping houses, a lot of the things I do, code enforcement liens. I buy properties and I get a lot of code enforcement liens waived. But education would be important. A lot of people have the money to do that or don’t have the money to do that,

That give you the foundation. That would be a thing to do. A thing not to do: I would make sure that when you have your agreement, that you have a long enough agreement so you can do your due diligence. And one thing I put in my agreements is this agreement is based on all satisfactory due diligence. As I’m getting through my process and

Maybe some people can’t sell it, all I let them know is the due diligence was not satisfactory. And in the eight years I’ve only walked away from two deals.

Cody Crabb (16:39)

Interesting. Interesting. Well, again, thank you so much for all this. This has been a really great peek into your strategy and your stuff. Give us some information. How do we contact you? You said you were willing to give out your personal contact info, which thank you so much.

Michael Robertson (16:53)

I’ll hold up a sign that says I buy lots, but I’ll just give you my cell phone. It’s very easy: 850-377-2203. I answer my calls, and my email, it’s michael@mylandfamily.com.I don’t have sixty-five employees like I used to. The phone rings, there it is.

Cody Crabb (17:13)

Awesome. Well, thank you. That’s very generous of you. Thank you so much for offering that to our audience. I’m sure that you’ll get a couple people that are very interested in hearing what you have to say. And thank you so much for your time today. We really appreciate it. And audience, we really appreciate you too. Thank you for your time. And if you like this episode today, make sure you don’t miss the next one. And we’ll see you later, Michael. It’s been a real pleasure.

Michael Robertson (17:34)

Cody, thank you.

Cody Crabb (17:35)

Have a good one.